Where Do Atheists Get These Crazy Generalizations From?

Aug 19th, 2008 | By CJ Simpson | Category: Comic

Click on comic for larger version.

Tags: christianity, gay bashing, gays, generalization, homophobia, lgbt, protest

22 comments
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Ian August 19th, 2008 8:33 pm :
I especially appreciate the generalized atheist as a nerdy white male.

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Brandonazz Reply:
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Statistically, most atheists fit that description.

I’m a nerd and proud!

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CJ Reply:
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:08 am
Well the main character is me when I was younger. I didn’t intend to stereotype atheists as all being nerds. It just by happened to be that I looked like a nerd.

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Susan O'Banion August 19th, 2008 11:09 pm :
Hilarious, but hard to read. I love that the biker dude is cast as the tolerant xian.

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Ian Reply:
August 20th, 2008 at 2:19 am
If you click on the comic it opens larger.

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plover August 23rd, 2008 9:07 pm :
The argument here seems self-undermining to me.

Biker dude is actually asking the right question: why the generalization?

He’s not asking why there’s *any* perception of anti-gay sentiment by Christians, or even why it is considered common, but rather why is it generalized to *all* Christians — and the blogger does not deny making such a generalization.

Evidence is not on the side of the generalization.

(For those not aware of the evidence: look up the Metropolitan Community Church, the United Church of Christ, and Bishop Gene Robinson.)

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Evan Reply:
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Yes, because we’ve all seen pro gay christian protests…..

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Jon August 24th, 2008 12:03 am :
Hahahaha. As a gay atheist I loved it! While I suppose technically there may be a few Christians that aren’t homophobic I suspect between 90 and 95 percent of Christians are.

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plover Reply:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:51 am
From a May 2008 California poll regarding marriage equality (pdf, p. 4):

Do you approve or disapprove of California allowing homosexuals to marry members of their own sex and have regular marriage laws apply to them?

Protestant (33% of sample) 34% Approve, 57% Disapprove, 9% No opinion
Catholic (28% of sample) 45% Approve, 48% Disapprove, 7% No opinion

A US nationwide Pew poll from May (pdf, p. 18) turned up 38% in favor and 49% against marriage equality for gays and lesbians, but is not broken down by religion.

“Supports marriage equality” is obviously not exactly synonymous with “not homophobic” but is probably a useful rough estimate. Also, admittedly, not every part of America resembles California. However, even if every non-Christian in the country supported marriage equality, it would still take a much larger percentage of Christians than you give credit to make up the rest of that 38% in the Pew poll.

So there’s some data about what’s going on — in this country anyway.

Beyond that though, you pretty much missed my point. Even if your estimate were correct, it would still make the generalization indefensible. Conventionally, LGBT folks are 10% of the population. If 10% of Christians were non-homophobic, that would make the statement “all Christians hate gays” about equally valid as “everyone is heterosexual”.

I have no problem with mocking intolerant and bigoted Christians (or anyone else with those qualities), but I don’t think the cartoonist does that successfully here.

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L Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Calm down. It’s a play on media attention and generalizations, not religious bigots.

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plover Reply:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:59 am
The last sentence of my previous comment (while technically true) doesn’t really address what’s going on here. The cartoonist is not so much mocking bigots as a perceived cluelessness among moderates. I don’t think that’s successful either.

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CJ Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I just think you’re over analyzing my cartoon. The people that I’m mocking in the cartoon are people that I usually come across in Texas that haven’t really given that much thought towards their beliefs or arguments. My intent for the cartoon was to make it anecdotal. Just come down to Texas for a little bit, and you’ll see some of these people.

The main focus of the cartoon wasn’t to mock bigots. I was trying to poke fun at tolerant Christians that wonder why atheists make comments that homosexuality is a sin in most religions. Just take it with a grain of salt.

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Ed Zwart Reply:
August 26th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
…not to mention that tolerant Christians are as responsible for intolerant ones as tolerant Muslims are for their intolerant kin. The criticism is valid. If it’s YOUR fairy tale they’ve hijacked, DEFEND it!

It’s not my job to be sensitive to your feelings.

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plover Reply:
August 26th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Are those uses of “your” directed at me, or are they generic? If the former, your unwarranted assumption are showing.

Also, if you think anything you’ve said has any bearing on my actual argument, you should probably read it again.

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Ed Zwart Reply:
August 26th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Dude, settle! They’re directed at the clueless moderates. The criticism refers to the cartoon. The point is: where is the strong criticism among moderate Muslims of the terrorists? Does that not seem germane?

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plover Reply:
August 27th, 2008 at 2:43 am
I obviously misunderstood your intent. My apologies.

It’s not that hard to find moderate Christians who are critical of fundie lunacy and the intransigence of other moderates on homosexuality and such — the media just doesn’t pay attention to them. However, I think the cartoonist is aiming at a rather more clueless group who give the appearance of not even comprehending that there’s a problem with theocrats and bigots taking over the public discourse.

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plover Reply:
August 26th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I get what you were trying to do. And yes, the main focus was not to mock bigots (hence my self-correction above).

There is probably some way of writing the first panel that would convey that your Christian character is the particular kind of dope you’re trying for, but I don’t believe that the current version succeeds. It’s the word “generalization” that seems to be causing most of the problem. The logic simply doesn’t work.

The generalization is false, and given that the atheist character’s answer tacitly accepts the generalization as true, the cartoon is easy to read as an acceptance of ignorance on the part of the atheist. Thus, to anyone not predisposed to think the worst of Christians, the message probably backfires.

I have no idea what particular questions you hear from clueless believers, but if the Christian said something like, “Not all Christians hate gays! Why do you atheists go on about it so much?” it would avoid the problem, and the answer would still make sense. (I expect there are better ways to put it than what I came up with, but hopefully it shows what I’m driving at.)

In any case, best of luck with your cartooning.

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Chedstone September 3rd, 2008 5:12 pm :
nice one.

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MarkW September 21st, 2008 5:22 pm :
The comic is indeed funny - but it forgot to mention an important source of where Atheists get their opinion from… how about the foundation of their entire belief system - their Holiest of Holy Books, the Bible!

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. [Leviticus 20:13]

And more:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

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Pegasus November 10th, 2008 7:27 pm :
Is the ‘Atheist’ in this cartoon wearing very big glasses because he’s myopic and can’t see beyond the most superficial and self-reflecting realities around him? May I recommend contact lenses?

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Pegasus November 10th, 2008 7:43 pm :
“The comic is indeed funny - but it forgot to mention an important source of where Atheists get their opinion from… how about the foundation of their entire belief system - their Holiest of Holy Books, the Bible!

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. [Leviticus 20:13]

And more:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm“

Ah yes! The Old Testament! Could you tell me the last time in history when the Jews, any Jews (for whom the book was intended), actually carried out that Commandment? Alas, Jewish teaching is not just the Old Testament or even the Books of Moses. There is also the Talmud, for instance, in which you will find the Jewish concept of ‘the Honour Of All Living Things’ which holds that no Commandment is ever to be carried out if it violates the integrity and honour of a living human being. Look into it. You may be surprised. Try those contact lenses I recommended if you find it hard to read.

And then let’s take a look at what the New Testament says on these subjects shall we? What do the Gospels say about homosexuality? Oh look! Nothing at all! How odd! What they DO say though includes:

“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, that ye also love one another.” - John 13:34-35

and here’s a good one which I am sure you will be familiar with:

“Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.” - Matthew 22:35-40

In other words, the twin commandments of LOVE supercede EVERYTHING before. If Love does not inform one’s behaviour, then one is not, strictly speaking, entitled to call oneself a Christian.

Think I’m lying? Let’s see what Paul has to say:

“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burnt, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing… And no abideth faith, hope and love, these three; but the greatest of these is LOVE.” - 1st Corinthians 13

and John:

“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love…. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us… he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” - First Epistle of John 4: 7-16

I think I’ve made my point. In terms of sheer volume, the injunctions to love (and there are many more than these) outweigh the references to homosexuality you will find in the Bible. Remember that for anyone calling themselves a Christian, the New Testament is supposed to SUPERSEDE the Old.

By all means slag religious people, but try not to be as stupid, as ignorant and ill-informed as they are.

Or at least buy contact lenses.

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SASnSA December 10th, 2008 7:59 pm :
I don’t see why anybody has a problem with gay marriage anyway. I believe they have as much right to suffer as heterosexuals if they so choose.

(sorry, bad joke)

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